StellarMate and Astroberry

Download and installation

Stellarmate

The more professional way to go and support the developer of EKOS and KStars

• https://www.stellarmate.com/products/stellarmate-os.html

Astroberry

• https://github.com/rkaczorek/astroberry-server
• http://www.indilib.org/forum/general/2183-astroberry-server/16419.html

Backup SD card

Creating an image from the sdcard

sudo pv /dev/mmcblk0 | xz -c > your_astroberry_or_stellarmate_image_$(date +%F).img.xz

Guiding

Predictice PEC

To use PPEC you need to know the worm period and add it to the guding parameters (EKOS and/or PHD2).

This can be easily done by deviding the durage of a siderial day in seconds through tehe count of the teeth of your mount in RA:

 86164,1 / count of teeth = seconds for worm period

OnStep

The old problem: OnStep won't be able to connect due to modem manager: Disable it:

systemctl stop ModemManager.service; systemctl mask ModemManager.service

Create an udev rule

sudo nano /etc/udev/rules.d/05-onstep.rules

SUBSYSTEM=="tty", ACTION=="add", ATTRS{idProduct}=="0483", ATTRS{idVendor}=="16c0", MODE="0770", GROUP="dialout", SYMLINK+="onstep"

Tweaks

• http://indilib.org/forum/general/2183-astroberry-server.html?start=132#24176

RTC DS3231

Due to problems with a working setup using these guides ...

• [1] https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-rtc
• [2] https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=209700

... I created my own solution (based on [2]). I got my RTC from makershop.de.

1. Install the hardware correctly!

According to the manual. RTFM ;-)

2. Enable I2C:

sudo raspi-config
-> 5 Interfacing Options
-> I2C
-> Yes & Enter and ESC

sudo reboot

3. Install Tools

sudo apt-get install python-smbus i2c-tools

4. Detect I2C

sudo i2cdetect -y 1

If the hardware is wired up correctly, you should see: ID #68. Later this will show UU (after the next part and a reboot).

5. Set up the kernel driver:

sudo vim /boot/config.txt
dtparam=i2c_arm=on  # this is mostly should be already set
dtoverlay=i2c-rtc,ds3231

6. Reboot

sudo reboot

7. Check, if the kernel driver is loaded:

sudo i2cdetect -y 1

If the kernel driver is loading correctly, you should see: UU like this:

     0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  a  b  c  d  e  f
00:          -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
10: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
20: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
30: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
40: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
50: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
60: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- UU -- -- -- -- -- -- --
70: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

8. Remove the fake-hwclock

apt-get purge fake-hwclock

At this point we DON'T - as shown in many HowTo's - edit the file /lib/udev/hwclock-set and remove any lines!

9. Udev rule

Instead we create an udev rule, that, when the RTC is avaiable, sets the correct time to the PI via /sbin/hwclock --hctosys. Since I had two hwclocks on my system, rtc and rtc0, and it never worked with rtc0 I added both to my udev rule.

sudo vim /etc/udev/rules.d/85-hwclock.rules
# On the Raspberry Pi the RTC isn't available when systemd tries,
# set the time from RTC now when it is available.
KERNEL=="rtc", RUN+="/sbin/hwclock --rtc=$root/$name --hctosys"
KERNEL=="rtc0", RUN+="/sbin/hwclock --rtc=$root/$name --hctosys"

Restart the service

sudo service udev restart

10. Set hwclock

If the time on your astroberry is correct, set your hwclock.

sudo hwclock -w

EXTRA TIP (not necessary if time is correct): setting the correct time on the astroberry

10 a) via ntp

Temporarily connect your astroberry to the ethernet. Edit the resolv.conf:

sudo vim /etc/resolv.conf
nameserver ip_of_your_router (e.g. fritzbox)
nameserver 8.8.8.8

Setting the time via ntp (internet):

sudo /etc/init.d/ntp restart

10 b) via tinyproxy

On your astroberry edit the environment variables for http(s)_proxy. We will use them in a moment.

astroberry@astroberry:~$ sudo vim /etc/environment
export http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:8889
export https_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:8889

On your main pc install tinyproxy. It will provide the proxy for the above specifications.

sudo apt install tinyproxy

sudo vim /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy.conf
Allow 127.0.0.1
#Allow 192.168.0.0/16
# Allow 192.168.10.0/24   # (astroberry 1.0)
Allow 10.42.0.0/24        # (astroberry 2.0)
#Allow 172.16.0.0/12
Allow ###.###.###.0/##    # (your network, e.g. 192.168.1.0/24)
#Allow 10.0.0.0/8 8888

Then log into astroberry via ssh reverse proxy and run on the astroberry the following command:

sudo date -s "$(wget --no-cache -S -O /dev/null google.com 2>&1 | sed -n -e '/  *Date: */ {' -e s///p -e q -e '}')"

I put this in the following script, which you can use to connect to your astroberry from any pc that has connection to the wireless access point of the astroberry. I call it "astroberry_connect_via_tinyproxy.sh". It opens a reverse ssh tunnel and

#!/bin/bash

if service tinyproxy status | grep "active (running)"
then 
    echo OK. Tinyproxy is running ...
else 
    echo tinyproxy needs to be started via sudo ...
    sudo service tinyproxy start
fi

echo ""
echo ""
echo "======================================================================================================================="
echo "When connection is established, use this command to set time:"
echo "sudo date -s \"\$(wget --no-cache -S -O /dev/null google.com 2>&1 | sed -n -e '/  *Date: */ {' -e s///p -e q -e '}')\""
echo "======================================================================================================================="
echo ""
echo ""

ssh -R 8889:localhost:8888 astroberry.local

Troubleshooting / Using internet with an ethernet cable and tinyproxy: If you are setting the proxy environment, all internet traffic is routed through the proxy. You cannot use the internet when connected with an ethernet cable to your local network, because this network will be the default one, but will not be routed.. You have to empty the environment variables like this:

export http_proxy=""
export https_proxy=""

and edit /etc/resolv.conf like shown in 10 a), everything works and you can connect.

Have fun!

GPS Neo 6M

The u-blox NEO6 gps module "GY-GPS6MV2" is nowadays (2012) a very cheap solution for gps. It costs around 10 € or less.

Nevertheless its not the ideal solution because of its known trouble to get a gps fix. Often it takes more than 10 minutes for a correct GPS fix.

It is also very sensitive to RF (radio frequency), therefor you habe to use it far away (at least meter or so) from a modern raspberry like the Pi 4. I strongly advise you to install the module within a metal case with a plastic top to it is shielded.

• 

  U-blox gps NEO6 module

Install the hardware

Remark 1: the ublox NOT BLINKING until it gets GPS-data. Therefore you will not see, if the module ist running - only in a shell with e.g. "sudo gpsmon /dev/serial0".

Remark 2: us a long cable (at least one meter) between Raspberry and the module and shield the module at the bottom and side against rf signals.

The pin setup for raspberry is described here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/usage/gpio/ You can alway use the pinout-command in a shell to get the pins. the relevant part is:

• 

  Pinout commond of raspberry

   3V3  (1) (2)  5V
 GPIO2  (3) (4)  5V
 GPIO3  (5) (6)  GND
 GPIO4  (7) (8)  GPIO14 (TX)
   GND  (9) (10) GPIO15 (RX)

Pin 1 to 7 we alreay used for the #GPS_Neo_6M.

For the neo6 we connect the "outer" row with the hardware as followed:

Raspi GPIO to Neo6 pins

VCC (3,3V to 5V)
RX	GIO 14 (TX)
TX	GIO 15 (RX)
GND (Ground)	GIO 6 (GND)

That's it.

Prepare raspberry

Install software

sudo apt-get install gpsd gpsd-clients minicom

Enable and configure serial

We do this with raspi-config, but can also use an editor:

sudo raspi-config

-> Interfacing options
->-> Serial
->->-> Login Shell -> No
->->-> Serial Port Hardware -> Yes

Configure serial

Raspberry pi /dev/serial0 is always pointing to GPIO 14/15. BUT, /dev/serial0 is pointing to /dev/ssyS0 which is NOT a full UART. To enable this and disable bluetooth, which makes really trouble due to RF-interference, we put the following into the config.txt:

sudo nano /boot/config.txt
# GPS
# init_uart_baud=9600
# init_uart_baud=38600
# Uncomment to assign ttyAMA0 to GPIO14:15 and
# the mini UART to the Bluetooth Module
# dtoverlay=pi3-miniuart-bt
# Uncomment to assign ttyAMA0 to GPIO14:15 and
# disable the Bluetooth module
dtoverlay=pi3-disable-bt

This gives us a full UART at /dev/serial0 (alias ttyAMA0 !).

ls -l /dev | grep ttyAMA0 && ls -l /dev | grep ttyS0

lrwxrwxrwx  1 root       root           7 Apr 17 16:56 serial0 -> ttyAMA0
crw-rw----  1 root       dialout 204,  64 Apr 17 16:56 ttyAMA0
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root       root           5 Apr 17 16:56 serial1 -> ttyS0
crw-rw----  1 root       dialout   4,  64 Apr 17 16:56 ttyS0

Then reboot.

GPS-Daemon

Disable virtual gps

Astroberry has a very bad thing on board by default: Virtual GPS. Get rid of this, it is the major problem for getting into trouble (a great and lot of thanks for Doug and his video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=KFhrg8myzUU where he discribed the problem in detail. look at hist channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=KFhrg8myzUU .-) )

By default, this virtual gps points to Warsaw Poland and it conflicts with your GPS hardware. We disable the service:

sudo systemctl stop virtualgps && systemctl disable virtualgps

Configure gps daemon

Now we have to stop the gpsd, if it is running and remove the socket:

sudo systemctl is-active gpsd       # check the service
sudo systemctl stop gpsd.socket     # stop the service
sudo systemctl disable gpsd.socket  # remove socket
sudo killall gpsd                   # just killall, if some are left

Now we sould alter the behaviour of the gpsd to just listen on localhost

sudo nano /lib/systemd/system/gpsd.socket

# Alter the line ListenStream from 127.0.0.1 to 0.0.0.0, keep the port :2947
ListenStream=0.0.0.0:2947

We like to use /dev/serial0 for GPS. If you connect to the serial pins 14 a(TX) and 15 (RX) this will always be /dev/serial0. We also don't want to enable the hotplug for other gps-devices (USBAUTO) and we add the option "-G" for the GPS-daemon so it is

sudo nano  /etc/default/gpsd

# Default settings for the gpsd init script and the hotplug wrapper.

# Start the gpsd daemon automatically at boot time
START_DAEMON="true"

# Use USB hotplugging to add new USB devices automatically to the daemon
USBAUTO="false"

# Devices gpsd should collect to at boot time.
# They need to be read/writeable, either by user gpsd or the group dialout.
# GPIO 14 (TX) and 15 (RX) on the pi is always /dev/serial0
DEVICES="/dev/serial0"

# Other options you want to pass to gpsd
GPSD_OPTIONS="-n -G"

# Socket
GPSD_SOCKET="/var/run/gpsd.sock"

Now we bind the socket of the gps-daemon to /dev/serial0 and enable it. We only have to do this once.

sudo gpsd /dev/serial0 -F /var/run/gpsd.sock
sudo systemctl enable gpsd.socket

Reboot the pi because the device is no hotplug device

Test with gpsmon

After the reboot, you can test the status with

gpsmon /dev/serial0

Remark: it could be, that you get an errer, because /dev/serial0 is not ready yet. Please wait a minute and then try again. BE PATIENT. It could take up to 25 minutes. Be sure you stay away from the pi and you are outside (not in the room).

After 10 minutes (or earlier) you see something like this:

• 

  gpsmon /dev/serial0 after getting a fix

Links

Configuration of the hardware:

• https://www.az-delivery.de/collections/kostenlose-e-books?ls=de

Troubleshooting GPSD:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=KFhrg8myzUU

Troubleshooting with pps:

gpsd:ERROR: KPPS:/dev/ttyAMA0 kernel PPS failed Connection timed out

• https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues/2352

SkySafari

Tested with SkySafari 5/6 Pro. Also see: http://www.indilib.org/forum/ekos/2253-skysafari-pro-5-with-ekos.html

On the astroberryenter:

SkySafari -> Main Control:

• Indiserver Host: 192.168.10.1 (10.42.0.1 with Astroberry 2.0)
• Indiserver Port: 7624
• SkySafari port: 9624

SkySafati -> Options:

• Debug: Disable
• Active Devices: EQMod Mount (EXACTELY so, case sensitive!!!)
• After that: Save the Options !

Then go tho SkySafari on your Tablet

• Open Settings (First Screen) -> Teleskope (Settings Chapter) -> Setup
  • Equipment Selection:
    • Scope Type: Meade LX 200 GPS, LX-600
    • Mount Type: Equatiorial GoTo (German)

• • Communication Settings
    • Connect via WiFi
      • • DO NOT EVER check "Auto-Detect SkyFi" (Sky Safari will crash - at least SF 5 does)
        • IP Adress: 192.168.10.1 (10.42.0.1 with Astroberry 2.0)
        • Port Number: 9624
        • DO NOT EVER press Button "SkyFi Web Page"

Indiweb Manager

• http://indilib.org/support/tutorials/162-indi-web-manager.html

sudo apt-get install python3-pip

sudo pip3 uninstall cython
sudo apt autoremove

sudo pip3 install Cython==0.23
sudo pip3 install indiweb

Start:

#> indi-web
http://localhost:8624

Swap - change size

sudo dphys-swapfile swapoff
sudo vim /etc/dphys-swapfile

# set size to absolute value, leaving empty (default) then uses computed value
#   you most likely don't want this, unless you have an special disk situation
#CONF_SWAPSIZE=100 # astroberry 2.0 default (as of 12/2019)
CONF_SWAPSIZE=2048

Save file and resize the file:

CONF_SWAPSIZE=2048 
sudo dphys-swapfile setup
sudo dphys-swapfile swapon

Test

free -m 
astroberry@astroberry:~ $ free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:            874         277         182          10         414         529
Swap:          2303         125        2178

Astrometry.net debian packages not reachable

UPDATE

There ist a scrip in

/home/astroberry/Downloads/AstroPi3
|-- astrometryIndexInstaller.sh

It will download

|-- astrometry-data-4208-4219_0.45_all.deb

which installs all necessary files. To download the correct files you need to know your FOV (Field of view) in arc minutes of you system. You can calculate this e.g. with tools like this:

• https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view (enter your camera and an object). Google easily calculates degrees into arc minutes.

Other solution (manual install)

There is a problem with the download-button at astroberry server to download the http://astrometry.net/data.html .

Search for the standard FITS files - depending on your FOV:

sudo apt-cache search astrometry.net

astrometry-data-tycho2 - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 index files
astrometry-data-tycho2-07 - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 index files (22'-30') 
astrometry-data-tycho2-07-bigendian - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 big endian index files (22'-30')
astrometry-data-tycho2-07-littleendian - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 little endian index files (22'-30')
astrometry-data-tycho2-08 - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 index files (30'-44')
astrometry-data-tycho2-08-bigendian - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 big endian index files (30'-44')
astrometry-data-tycho2-08-littleendian - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 little endian index files (30'-44')
astrometry-data-tycho2-09 - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 index files (44'-60')
astrometry-data-tycho2-09-bigendian - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 big endian index files (44'-60')
astrometry-data-tycho2-09-littleendian - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 little endian index files (44'-60')
astrometry-data-tycho2-10-19 - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 index files (60'-2000')
astrometry-data-tycho2-10-19-bigendian - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 big endian index files (60'-2000')
astrometry-data-tycho2-10-19-littleendian - Astrometry.net Tycho-2 little endian index files (60'-2000')

astrometry-data-2mass - Astrometry.net 2MASS index files downloader
astrometry-data-2mass-00 - Astrometry.net 2MASS index files downloader (2'-2.8')
astrometry-data-2mass-01 - Astrometry.net 2MASS index files downloader (2.8'-4')
astrometry-data-2mass-02 - Astrometry.net 2MASS index files downloader (4'-5.6')
astrometry-data-2mass-03 - Astrometry.net 2MASS index files downloader (5.6'-8')
astrometry-data-2mass-04 - Astrometry.net 2MASS index files downloader (8'-11')
astrometry-data-2mass-05 - Astrometry.net 2MASS index files downloader (11'-16')
astrometry-data-2mass-06 - Astrometry.net 2MASS index files downloader (16'-22')
astrometry-data-2mass-07 - Astrometry.net 2MASS index files downloader (22'-30')
astrometry-data-2mass-08-19 - Astrometry.net 2MASS index files downloader (30'-2000')

Manually

The astronomy.net FITS files are in

/usr/share/astrometry

If you have to download packages put the astroberry with a LAN cable into the internet.

Then you can download the packages.

sudo su
cd /usr/share/astrometry
chmod +x 
./wget_astrometry_fits.sh

Here is the wget-script - it is included in the astroberry suite.

#!/bin/bash
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4219.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4218.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4217.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4216.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4215.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4214.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4213.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4212.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4211.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4210.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4209.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4208.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-11.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-10.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-09.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-08.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-07.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-06.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-05.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-04.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-03.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-02.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-01.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4207-00.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-11.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-10.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-09.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-08.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-07.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-06.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-05.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-04.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-03.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-02.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-01.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4206-00.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-11.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-10.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-09.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-08.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-07.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-06.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-05.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-04.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-03.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-02.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-01.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4205-00.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-47.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-46.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-45.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-44.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-43.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-42.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-41.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-40.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-39.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-38.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-37.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-36.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-35.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-34.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-33.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-32.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-31.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-30.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-29.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-28.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-27.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-26.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-25.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-24.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-23.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-22.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-21.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-20.fits
wget --continue http://broiler.astrometry.net/~dstn/4200/index-4204-19.fits
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echo The 4201 and 4200 ones are probably not required by very many people...
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